Friday, December 5, 2008

A lesson in a Christmas Song

I love Christmas and listening to Christmas Carols. So as my family gets ready to meet the day we listen to Christmas music on a station that plays nothing but from Thanksgiving till New years. This morning that sappy song from the 1980's African Live Aid concert came on. You know the one where they sing about "and there won't be snow in Africa this year."(1 ) (I much prefer the classics ). Any way I mentioned to my teenage son where that song came from and ended with the comment and they are still starving in Africa.

My Teenage son immediately responded with "That's because they are all run by dictators. if we just went in and removed the dictators they wouldn't be starving. I don't understand why people think its wrong to use military action to remove dictators." And the UN is no use because most of them are dictators."

Out of the mouths of babes comes wisdom.

(1)Nothing in the post should be considered a denigration of the efforts of Live Aid to get food to starving people. I applaud private charity work to relieve suffering if even temporarily. It is however a sappy song.


ambrosiajr said...

I hope you explained to your son that just because we can go in and invade a sovereign nation solely based on the fact that we don't like whos in power at any given time, that we shouldn't do that. Did you explain to him that we liked the Taliban and then we didn't? That we supplied Saddam with arms because of Iran and then we hated him when he insulted Bush's daddy? I hope you explained to him the dangers of ones son going to war and being put in harms way just because we don't like that form of government, at that time, and that it is not a healthy foreign policy to follow. I hope you talked some sense into him so he doesn't feel that he can just go into school and remove the teacher just because he thinks she's a dictator.

Son of Liberty said...

Nope I told him he was dam right.
If the free world got together and said enough is enough and removed These psychopathic dictators untold suffering would be avoided millions of lifes would be saved and the world would be a better place. (YES THAT IS WHY I SUPPORT THE INVASION OF IRAQ) And after two or three bit the dust the rest would shape up. Why do you think Quadaffi cleaned up his act.
I am talking about dictatorships not elected governments. I don't like Chavez but he was elected and as long as he leaves us alone we should leave him alone. But their are a lot of governments out there who are not legitimate.
Unfortunatly most of Europe and half of America is blind to or to cowardly or just to dam fat and lazy to undersatand the fact that it is IMMORAL to sit back and let this shit happen and not do something about it.

Son of Liberty said...

And the fact that in the past we supported bad people for geopolitical reasons is irrelevent to this conversation.

ambrosiajr said...

Some would argue that Saddam was elected...

And it was a perfect opportunity for you to teach your son about the pratfalls of supporting governments (or "freedom fighters) that we have no business supporting. We prop up dictators when it suits our purposes. Did you by any chance mention the dictators in Saudi Arabia...our good friends who have no concept of human rights? Or women's rights? Or how about our new banking friends...the chinese? They were elected too.
And it has nothing to do with cowardice...but everything to do with what is right. Invading a country that has not harmed us is plain wrong. Iraq did us no harm. Eventually, even our own intel had to admit that, but by then, it was too late.

Son of Liberty said...

With all due respect only an idiot would argue that Saddam was elected.
Did us no harm? He was shooting at our pilots on a reguar basis, who were enforcing a no fly zone which was agreed to as part of a truce after he invaded another country to steal their Oil. That by itself was enough of a justification to finish what Bush 1 and Colin Powell should have finished the first time. But lets ignore the facts and instead pretend this was all about revenge because Daddy Bush was insulted. Oh wait a minute he wasn't insulted Saddam tried to have him assasinated.

Next point: yeah we have sometimes supported bad people to contain worse people. An ugly reality but sometimes you have to get ugly to survive. I have no issues their.
In fact if we just took the Bastards out we could eventually stop playing these games.

If you took out a couple of baddies the Saudis and their ilk would start listening when told to straighten up their act. As it stands now we have no leverage.

But the most infuriating thing about what you say is that you are willing to allow millions to die from starvation outright murder and be unjustly imprisoned because its "wrong to invade another country" Whats wrong is that the US and Europe and Canada and Australia and the few other truly free countries do not use our power to stop the suffering. Just like we all refused to do something about Hitler until it was almost too late.
Neville Chamberlain would have loved you!
Force used in the pursuit of Freedom and Justice is moral.
Failure to do so is the immoral act.

ambrosiajr said...

You can't equate WW2 with Iraq. Only an idiot would try. And its ok to deal with long as suits our interests? You call that moral? Why haven't we invaded China? With your reasoning, since they attacked us in Korea, then we should have answered with force. Where do you think the world would be now? Fried to a crisp, I would think.
I hope you never have to go through having a son in war. We did, and its devestating. Luckily, he came home safe. Talk to me then about going to war for "moral" reasons. Oh yeah, I guess its morally right to torture too. You probably have no problem with that. As long is its not Americans getting tortured, right?

Son of Liberty said...

I did not compare ww2 to Iraq I just pointed out where your reasoning eventually leads.
Truman should have listened to MacArthur.
We should have invaded China.
Millions of lifes would have been saved. Now it would not be practical. But it would be for a lot of third world tin horn dictators, if our allies went along with it.

I aplaud your sons bravery for volunteering for his country he put his own life and comfort on the line for a greater cause. You however have put your own need for his safety above the greater good.

My Son has expressed an intrest in the military and I will worry because I love him but I will be proud also and will not dishonor him by whining. (yeah I know thats harsh but thats what think)

No its ok to torture Americans too if it will save innocent lifes. By the way before you go there The Constitution does not ban torture it bans cruel and unusual punishment and the use of coerced confessions to convict someone. I do not approve of torture being used for either of those purposes.

You seem to have difficulty prioritizing your values.

Invading a foriegn country is wrong. Letting millions starve or be oppressed is more wrong.
Torture is wrong. Letting innocent people be killed in a terrorist attack is more wrong.

What part of that don't you get?

ambrosiajr said...

Damn straight I put my need to keep him safe before anything else. Like you wouldn't? Talk to me about when you get there.